O2

Over the last couple of months I've been having a dispute with O2 over a few things. Rather than explain them all twice, I've decided to post the full letters and responses from O2 for people to read for themselves. I have redacted some personal information as it's not appropriate to be public. The resulting lack of action by O2 has turned this into a "to be continued" saga as it's handed over to Trading Standards.

25 / 06 / 2010

Email Subject:

A complaint before it gets to Trading Standards level

Email Body: 

Dear Sir / Madam,

I have been given this email address from a reply to the contact form on the 02.co.uk site.Please find attached the O2.doc letter which explains my complaint in full. It's Word 2003 .doc format. Since the letter explains everything there's no point in duplicating it here.

I don't trust O2 with my personal details, so I won't give you my home number but you can contact me on 07523 ****** or at this email address if you have any questions or need clarification. Don't call between 4.45pm and 6.30pm as I'm not going to deal with this while on the train, or while a football match is live.

As I also state in the letter, I'll be doing this fully publicly, so every email and response will be made available to all on my blog, including this one. I will of course protect sensitive information like email addresses.

I look forward to your response.

Yours,

Gordon Sinclair

The aforementioned .doc file in full:

Dear Sir / Madam,

I am writing to complain about the service I received in the Stirling O2 store, or more specifically the wrong information I was given by the staff which cost me money.

Unit 11 Stirling Thistle Marches Shopping Centre, Goosecroft, Stirling FK8 2EA

I bought a Pay&Go HTC Smart on Tuesday 8th June 2010 at around 3.30pm (I no longer have the receipt and didn’t have it long enough to remember the number).

The phone was listed at £99 (£9 more expensive than your website which does not state “internet only price”). O2 refuse to do what almost every other retailer does; price match, even with themselves. It turned out however that it’d been reduced to £90 on the till, but even today it’s still on display at £99 two weeks later. The “mandatory £10 credit” is also very misleading, since it’s non-refundable. I understand that some people are unlocking the phones and sending them abroad, but why not increase the price of the phone to include the credit? The price on the ticket is £90 but the customer can’t pay £90 and walk out the door with the product. It’s a very RyanAir way of pricing.

Anyway I did buy the phone plus £10 of credit that I had no choice in, and a pack of screen protectors. I returned the following Saturday 12th June 2010 to ask about server settings, then on Tuesday 15th June to get the refund.

I had checked various YouTube reviews which all showed the Email feature; an email button leading to presets for Googlemail and AOL with a manual settings option. From this I implied that I’d be able to email from this phone. I only found out afterwards that “email is not supported on Pay&Go” from the customer support line. Initially I got incoming email fine, but it refused to send any. I asked in the Stirling store if I need to use O2’s outgoing server settings and was told “I’m not sure but this is the support line, they should be able to help you” (note the lack of “email doesn’t work on Pay&Go” reply?). Even after telling the Stirling staff this, they still insisted it should work “did you tell them it was a smart phone?” to which my response was “I told them it was an HTC Smart, they should have known it was a smartphone”. From this it seems that even armed with this knowledge they’d still happily mis-sell the same phone to new customers, despite it being unsupported.

Note that T-Mobile do not discriminate for Pay&Go customers, if the phone can do something, it works regardless of the payment method. I’ve not checked if others discriminate or not.

The question is not “I want O2 to support it” I can do that myself, I know all the settings I need, what I needed was “O2 not to block the ports I need for it to work”, or the more honest “email won’t work on Pay&Go” before I bought the phone. Eventually they agreed to a refund, and told me to bring in my receipt, box, charger etc as I didn’t have those with me at then time which is fair enough. When I returned with those I got hit with yet another “after the fact bombshell”. As I knew I’d be buying a different O2 Pay&Go phone I said I’d take the SIM card with the £10 credit and use that on the new phone and was told “the SIM card is locked to that phone, it must be returned as a package if you want a refund”.

Let me repeat that in bold so there’s no misunderstanding:

“The SIM card is locked to that phone.”

I knew SIM cards and phones are locked to the networks, a practice I disagree with, but at least understand, but locked to a phone? This means that there’s no point in having a backup phone as it won’t work. The SIM card with the credit, contacts etc won’t work in any other phone, even other O2 Pay&Go ones. It’s been a few years since I had any interest in mobile phones so despite all my instincts calling "bogus” on that claim, for all I knew, things may have changed and O2 may be even more consumer hostile now.

I have since asked staff who sell O2 Pay&Go phones in other stores as well as staff in the Falkirk O2 store to confirm or deny that, and not one of them confirmed it. They all unanimously denied it. This confirmed my knowledge hadn’t changed over the years, the same still applied. So we’re back to the staff refusing to refund the phone without including the SIM card, and the credit that I’d paid for. To me, this amounts to nothing short of theft by deception. It also makes me wonder just how many 1,000’s of people O2 have gotten free money from on this premise.

From that £10 credit I made a grand total of 3 short calls to the same 01324 number on Wednesday 9th June 2010:

1. 10:00am - To wonder why nobody was answering the office doorbell and hung up when it went to the answer machine
2. 10:10am - Decided to leave a message after all to enquire (around 30secs)
3. 10:50am - 40mins later to leave another message stating that I’d be heading home and to see them tomorrow (again around 30secs)

I’d estimate that my calls amounted to around 20p in total. The reason I’m being specific is that I didn’t remember the number of the SIM card, and all the receipts were returned with the phone, so you can match it up with your records. I never thought to look at the balance as I expected to still be using the same SIM card with a different O2 Pay&Go phone.

I was given the option of spending another week using the credit up, which I assumed meant you have a 2 week return policy, or writing off the credit on the card. They would not allow me to keep the card to use in a new O2 Pay&Go phone. Initially I stormed out and decided to just use the credit up, got half way out of the shopping centre and decided to just get it over with today and be rid of O2. I was then refunded the £90 I paid for the phone, during which the system wanted all sorts of details about me. Given that I now see O2’s trustworthiness as lower than a market stall trader with so many gotchas in the small print, I’m not going to give O2 my details so they can sell it to other companies who will start bombarding me with marketing stuff I don’t want. I did give my proper name, and the contact number was the SIM card with the credit that I had to return. I told him “just invent anything” for the form.

Another complication was the phone I’d chosen as a replacement; the Samsung Tocco Lite is much more expensive in O2 than everywhere else. The O2 store has it at £80, other stores are between £60 and £65. This is not a small amount considering the price of the phone, 25% more expensive? I asked them to price match, but was told they don’t do that. This meant a refund was the only outcome. It also meant that I’d have to buy another £10 credit with the new phone despite having been forced to write off the first £10 by wrong information from O2 staff in Stirling.

On Tuesday 22nd June 2010 I returned to the Stirling store to speak to the manager and confirm the line that his staff claimed; “The SIM card is locked to that phone.”. I expected either one of two responses:

• Yes, that’s correct, they are locked to the phones
• No, they’re not locked to the phones, either you misunderstood what the member of staff said or the member of staff made a mistake

What I got was “was that what they told you?” He had the feel of a politician about him. He wouldn’t confirm or deny the policy, nor back his staff. He didn’t even provisionally back his staff ie “if that’s what really happened, I only have the customers side of things so far”. I asked him for the policy in writing, again he refused. This is market stall customer services, leading to yet another “O2 gotcha after the fact”. All of the Stirling staff tell you different things, forget to tell you stuff until it’s sprung on you, and even then they conflict with each other and the Falkirk store.

If that’s not bad enough I’ve had to use credit on my new phone to deal with O2 customer services to deal with the old one. The automated machine is terrible too, not easy to navigate, with very loud music when you’re on hold. The first time I was cut off when on hold too, meaning I had to call back and go through the automated machine maze a second time.

I’ve since been thinking about this, and how to address it. I spoke to Stirling Trading Standards about the procedures for making an official complaint, and was told to set it all out in a letter and give you 14 days to reply. They also told me to inform you that if a satisfactory reply does not arrive within 14 days that I will escalate it to Trading Standards and let them deal with you on my behalf. Hence this letter.

I will be making this complaint and it’s replies fully public on my blog. The way I see it, is that I’m doing a public service in educating people about my experiences of O2. Perhaps others have had a similar experience of O2 and will be demanding their money back after reading my experiences.

I’ve already written 3 blog posts about the HTC Smart on O2.

http://thistleweb.co.uk/blog/15/06/2010/htc-smart-02-pt-1

http://thistleweb.co.uk/blog/15/06/2010/htc-smart-02-pt-2

http://thistleweb.co.uk/blog/19/06/2010/htc-smart-02-pt-3

An update to my posts, I’ve since done a signal checker with the other networks and it appears that both T-Mobile and Orange have improved their signals in my area from the last time I tried them so I do have the option of T-Mobile or Orange, thankfully. Vodaphone are still as patchy as before however.

Just so I can inform my readers, I ask for the official policy from O2; is a Pay&Go O2 SIM card locked to a specific phone or not? I’m sure people will be alarmed to find out it’s true, if it is indeed true, or suspect of anything an O2 member of staff tells them if it’s not true.

I tried to find an email address on o2.co.uk to send this complaint to and couldn’t. I tried the “Ask Lucy”, expecting it to be a real person, only to find a bot with totally useless scripted generic responses. I had no choice but to try the contact form to ask for the email address, which it claims “we will respond within 24 hours” only to get an autoreply confirmation of my email in which that claim changes to “72 hours”. Yet another example of O2 moving the goalposts after the fact. Somehow I don’t expect anything less now.

You almost have to laugh at a company whose business is communication to be so terrible at communication.

Today’s date is Friday 25th June. If I do not receive a satisfactory response by Friday 9th August 2010 I will escalate it to an official complaint with Trading Standards.

To save others from having to jump through the hoops O2 have created to get the correct complaints email & postal address, I’ll list them here. There’s no need to thank me for this public service.

complaintreviewservice (at) o2 (dot) com

Telefónica O2 UK Limited

Complaint Review Service

PO Box 302

Dunstable

LU6 9GN

Fax: 01133 881 153

Yours,

Gordon Sinclair

O2:- Complaint email (********************)

26 / 06 / 2010 Update to the original complaint

Email Subject:

Update to existing and outstanding complaint

Email Body:

Dear Sir / Madam,

O2:- Complaint email (********************)

I emailed yesterday to start the complaints procedure and gave my current O2 mobile number as a contact 07523 ******. Today I had to get the phone refunded and the SIM / number went with it so I can no longer be contacted on that number. As reluctant as I am to give out my home number for this I will do so on the proviso that I don't get deluged with sales or marketing calls. I am unlisted, ex directory and registered with the TPS for a reason. If you want to discuss this feel free to phone me on ***** ******. Do not use this number for anything other than dealing with this complaint.

I am out of the house during working hours but the answering machine is on.

Yours,

Gordon Sinclair

07 / 07 / 2010 Reply from O2

Email Subject:

Your O2 Pay & Go phone

Email Body:

Our reference: *******

Mobile phone number: 07523 ******

Dear Mr Sinclair

Thnak you for your recent emails. I'm sorry to hear about the poor service you received at our Stirling store and I appreciate how frustrating tis must have been for you.

Although we don't support the email function on any mobile phone which is used on our Pay & Go service, the SIM card you purchase at the same time as your new phone can be used in any O2 handset.

I've used our internal systems to pass feedback aout your experience to the staff at the Stirling store, via the area manager. This will highlight any training needs and help us improve the service we offer to all our customers.

If you'll let me have your address I'll be happy to send you a cheque for £20 to refund the SIM charge and also to say sorry for any upset we caused.

Yours sincerely

Ruth Holderness

Customer Relations Team

Tel – 0845 3300684

Fax - 01133881153

 

I wanted to think about my reply overnight, instead of just acting on instinct.

08 / 07 / 2010 My reply to Ruth Holderness

Email Subject:

RE: Your O2 Pay & Go phone

Email Body:

Ruth Holderness,

Thank you for the offer of the £20 to refund the cost and some extra for the inconvenience.

Can you please give me the links to the parts of the O2 site where O2 list the Customer complaints email, phone and fax number that I had to jump through hoops to get?

Can you also give me the links to the places where O2 tell prospective new customers that O2 cripple some of the functions of the phone? It's only fair for customers to see beforehand that the same phone they could buy cheaper, on a cheaper network will have none of the functionality blocked by the network, where on O2 some of the functions are crippled.

I've had another look at the HTC Smart page and it still mentions nothing about the email function being crippled by O2. I've had a look through the Pay&Go tarrifs and can't see anything about the email being blocked on Pay&Go.

I know that customer hostile policies aren't great selling points but it's only fair to tell people before purchase so they can figure it into the "is this value for money from this store" decision. It's not really upfront to tuck it away somewhere in the small print (assuming it's there at all, I couldn't find it) if it's something the customer never thinks to wonder. No other network cripple their phones, so why would anyone assume O2 might? Without that doubt, why would anyone think to wade through the legalese in the small print?

Out of curiosity, what else do O2 cripple on Pay&Go phones without telling people? I happened to notice the email part. Could you also provide links to those notifications too? If it's a "selling point" of the Pay&Go tariff then it should be on the tariff details page right? You should be able to see what else is blocked on Pay&Go in an easy comparison guide right?

I do note the difference between "not supported" and "blocked". You've confirmed that email is "not supported" on O2's Pay&Go tarrif. To me "not supported" means "it may work, it may not, we're not making any effort either way, to make it work or stop it from working". This is NOT what O2 are doing, they're blocking the ports used. Not only have O2 blocked the regular port 25 (something many ISPs do too), but they block the alternate port of 587 too. To me this shows a very deliberate effort to block the main door and cover the back door too so there's no way around it. This is an active move to block the function, which is "blocked" not "unsupported".

This reduces the functions available from the phone on O2, which reduces the value for money.

I'll happily help promote these links on O2's behalf. I'm all in favour of consumers being fully aware of what they're buying before they hand over the cash. I'd assume any reputable company would also feel the same way.

Yours,

Gordon Sinclair

29 / 07 / 2010 My final email to O2

Email Subject:

Still awaiting a reply from 8th July

Email Body:

O2 reference: *******

Hi Ruth,

You answered my email on the 7th July, I chose to think about my response, and replied myself on the 8th only to be answered by an automated "out of office" email. I (rather naively as it turned out) expected that a company the size of O2 would have a system to pass on cases to other members of staff while out of the office for a prolonged period. As such I expected a different member of staff to reply within a few days. Turns out O2 haven't grasped that concept yet.

I resigned myself to having to wait until the 20th July for you to return to get a reply. This is now the 29th July and I still haven't heard back from anyone at O2. I understand backlogs but it's now over a week since you returned, and I've been completely ignored. Why?

You'll notice that my original letter had dates worked out over July / August, and that I'd given my 2 week deadline ending in what I worked out to be (offhand) 9th August. This was my mistake, I'd written the letter in my lunch break and used Outlook as my calendar without first centering it to the current month. Since it was my mistake I will honour the deadline I gave O2 to provide a satisfactory response. This gives you 6 weeks instead of the intended 2 from the original date of the complaint. Given that I've first been dealt with by someone who only gives a vague half answer, then disappears for 10 days, only to come back and soundly ignore me I don't see this turning out well.

I've had another look at the O2 site in the hopes of things being clearer to customers and haven't seen any changes. The HTC Smart page still lists "email" down the right collum where people would expect the list of features to be, it still makes no mention of it only being available on a contract. The price listed is the Pay&Go price. You can even search for phones "best for", where the Pay&Go + Email combination produces results, which is very odd considering you yourself confirmed that email is not supported on Pay&Go. You could interpret that many ways, I'm sure Trading Standards will spot that.

Just in case the reply I sent which triggered the "out of office" autoreply, which possibly also triggered a "delete" function (it seems fitting for what O2 call "customer service") here's the original 8Th July reply:

START

Ruth Holderness,

Thank you for the offer of the £20 to refund the cost and some extra for the inconvenience.

Can you please give me the links to the parts of the O2 site where O2 list the Customer complaints email, phone and fax number that I had to jump through hoops to get?

Can you also give me the links to the places where O2 tell prospective new customers that O2 cripple some of the functions of the phone? It's only fair for customers to see beforehand that the same phone they could buy cheaper, on a cheaper network will have none of the functionality blocked by the network, where on O2 some of the functions are crippled.

I've had another look at the HTC Smart page and it still mentions nothing about the email function being crippled by O2. I've had a look through the Pay&Go tarrifs and can't see anything about the email being blocked on Pay&Go.

I know that customer hostile policies aren't great selling points but it's only fair to tell people before purchase so they can figure it into the "is this value for money from this store" decision. It's not really upfront to tuck it away somewhere in the small print (assuming it's there at all, I couldn't find it) if it's something the customer never thinks to wonder. No other network cripple their phones, so why would anyone assume O2 might? Without that doubt, why would anyone think to wade through the legalese in the small print?

Out of curiosity, what else do O2 cripple on Pay&Go phones without telling people? I happened to notice the email part. Could you also provide links to those notifications too? If it's a "selling point" of the Pay&Go tariff then it should be on the tariff details page right? You should be able to see what else is blocked on Pay&Go in an easy comparison guide right?

I do note the difference between "not supported" and "blocked". You've confirmed that email is "not supported" on O2's Pay&Go tarrif. To me "not supported" means "it may work, it may not, we're not making any effort either way, to make it work or stop it from working". This is NOT what O2 are doing, they're blocking the ports used. Not only have O2 blocked the regular port 25 (something many ISPs do too), but they block the alternate port of 587 too. To me this shows a very deliberate effort to block the main door and cover the back door too so there's no way around it. This is an active move to block the function, which is "blocked" not "unsupported".

This reduces the functions available from the phone on O2, which reduces the value for money.

I'll happily help promote these links on O2's behalf. I'm all in favour of consumers being fully aware of what they're buying before they hand over the cash. I'd assume any reputable company would also feel the same way.

Yours,

Gordon Sinclair

END

I await a reply, and if you're either busy, out of the office or just don't want to deal with this, please pass it on to someone who can. As things stand I'm making it a formal complaint with Trading Standards around the 9th August.

14 / 08 / 2010 To be continued....

Since O2 have ignored my emails, I'll be moving this complaint up to Trading Standards and potentially the Advertising Standards Authority. I've been kinda busy over the last few days but will have time to do this on Tuesday.

Some easy links for anyone who wants to investigate:

The O2 Pay&Go tariff

The small print of the O2 Pay&Go tariff

The HTC Smart product info page

Note down the right column it states "best for" which lists "email" among them with no mention that email is blocked on the Pay&Go tariff. Just in case the site changes, this is a screengrab.

The O2 results for "Pay&Go" + "Email"

Remember that O2 block email on Pay&Go tariffs. The results have recently changed on this search. On the 27 / 07 / 2010 there were two phones which O2 were selling as "best for email on Pay&Go", today there are three. Speaks volumes huh?

Obviously O2 have some way of making two opposites equal the same thing, but I can't figure it out. How can something be sold as "best Pay&Go for email" when email is not supported on that tarrif? The email (as I found out after buying it) is blocked. Surely a more honest results page would just show the logos and links to Orange, Vodaphone, T-Mobile and Three since none of those block email on their prepay tariffs. Can anyone explain this paradox? Can O2 explain this paradox to both Trading Standards and the Advertising Standards Authority?

Since Ruth has added the phone number of this mysterious department in her reply I thought I'd state the contact details in full again:

complaintreviewservice (at) o2 (dot) com

Telefónica O2 UK Limited

Complaint Review Service

PO Box 302

Dunstable

LU6 9GN

Phone: 0845 330 0684

Fax: 01133 881 153

17 / 08 / 2010 Phase two begins

Today I registered an offical complaint with Stirling Trading Standards and the Advertising Standards Authority. I was advised that it'd be a good idea to let OFCOM know about it as well, but as their site states that there must be an 8 week period and the company not responding etc, we're still around the 7 week mark I think, so I'll leave that until next week to deal with.

It will be passed on to the Home Authority for them to look into in more detail. As I understand it, the Home Authority is the local Trading Standards office in the area of the companies head office.